i really HATE war and all but y'know what?

Hold the clock up. "Tree-hugging hippies" spitting on troops. It's not fair to say that environmentally-minded people were related to such things. People who were spitting on troops were spitting on troops and obviously do not reflect the interests of all tree-huggers or all hippies. I've got coworkers who are and were hippies and served their tour(s). I've got friends and friend's parents who were the same.

Jerk-off.

War is hell. That's something those of us who don't experience it will never understand, I admit. That is one of the reasons I never want to experience it (from either side) and one of the reasons I think Bush should be impeached (for increasing the possibility of further attacks on American soil and for needlessly putting our troops in harm's way).

[KiloWatts]

I'll say it again:

If you hate war, don't support it.

That's all there is to it. Any other justification for the loss of human life is hypocrisy.



If you support war, then you support death and destruction, and you might as well just say it. None of this 'aww poor us we just HAVE to go to war and kill lots of people and I hate it but I'll be watching with my nose pressed to the TV and maybe I'll actually get to see a dead body.'

If you hate war, don't support it.

[djmerritt]

Originally posted by hyoomen
Hold the clock up. "Tree-hugging hippies" spitting on troops. It's not fair to say that environmentally-minded people were related to such things. People who were spitting on troops were spitting on troops and obviously do not reflect the interests of all tree-huggers or all hippies. I've got coworkers who are and were hippies and served their tour(s). I've got friends and friend's parents who were the same.

Jerk-off.

hmmm... anybody with some real sense would know that i wasn't talking about ALL hippies and tree huggers and whatever else you want to call them. but the fact is that our soldiers were treated like shit after Vietnam (it wasn't wall street people spitting from their highrises) and we were just pointing that out. and to call me a jerk off because your arguement is based on an over-generalization... hmmm well, i'll let it slide because I'm not the one looking stupid.

we still need to support our troops and show them we care about them- regardless of how you feel about the war.
(and thats all that was being stated)

Originally posted by djmerritt
hmmm... anybody with some real sense would know that i wasn't talking about ALL hippies and tree huggers and whatever else you want to call them. but the fact is that our soldiers were treated like shit after Vietnam (it wasn't wall street people spitting from their highrises) and we were just pointing that out. and to call me a jerk off because your arguement is based on an over-generalization... hmmm well, i'll let it slide because I'm not the one looking stupid.

we still need to support our troops and show them we care about them- regardless of how you feel about the war.
(and thats all that was being stated)

I agree completely, regardless of others on this board say

[Sir Meh]

[Westbound]

i'll apologize for making a stereotype about hippies. that was probably uncalled for.
let me reiterate by saying "worthless pieces of unpatriotic shit" that spit on american soldiers after vietnam.

[KING SIZE]

i still cant figure out where i stand on this war.. but if i ever saw someone spitting on a soldier, i'd help the soldier kick their fucking ass.

[Westbound]

Originally posted by silent grooves
i still cant figure out where i stand on this war.. but if i ever saw someone spitting on a soldier, i'd help the soldier kick their fucking ass.

amen my brutha!

I'm not for this war, I'm completely against it. But since its going to happen whether we like it or not, I really hope our boys make it home ok. I get the feeling thats what was trying to be said here. No spitting on my part.

[Westbound]

I wasn't trying to insinuate a drawn out mission. i just understand the mentality in our society to take their objections on subjects to extremes.

[Michael Halo]

I've been trying to come to grips with my overall stance on whether or not we should be in Iraq. Not withstanding the REAL reasons that the president is implementing his polocies I've come to a few conclusions. Killing is wrong. War is monetarily costly. However, I've been learning more about Sadam's two sons and their cruel actions against the people of Iraq. Information such as the firing squads, acid tortures (not psychedelic ), and the rape room (which was my turning point). I feel sorry for the people of this country which are suffering from the Sadam family. I realize many Americans and Iraqis might be killed during this conflict. However, much future suffering will be eliminated when this tyrant regime is removed from power and the people of Iraq can relax in their own country.

[steve-o]

Originally posted by [aNNa]
you know.. i wonder if bush would give a damn
about saddam if sept. 11th never happened..

all this hoopla over iraq.

*shrug*

feh.

When you really sit down and look at all of this…the real question is:

“would 9/11 even have occurred had Saddam Hussein been removed from power at the end of the first Gulf War?”

My reasoning is this (put quite simply)

After the Gulf War, the United States kept an increased presence in the Gulf region (more specifically in Saudi Arabia) to keep the heat on Saddam’s regime. The increased American military presence angered many Saudi’s…including one who defected. His name was Osama bin Laden. In an effort to rid the region of America’s military presence he masterminded the Al-Qaeda network…including attacks on foreign embassies, the USS Cole, the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon…just to name a few. It is my opinion that if Saddam originally had been removed from power that the Twin Towers would still be standing high and many families would still have their loved ones.

Anyone who thinks that there is or was a chance for diplomacy in dealing with Saddam Hussein is INSANE. That’s like saying if we had just asked Hitler politely to leave Nazi Germany…he would have. Bottom line is this didn’t start after 9/11. This started TWELVE years ago people. 9/11 was a direct result of us TRYING to give diplomacy a chance by giving that Fuck-tard over there a SECOND chance and falling into his deceit.

Just like the email going around says “Get your head out of the sand and smell the Twin Towers burning…”

[Adam D]

Originally posted by steve-o
When you really sit down and look at all of this…the real question is:

“would 9/11 even have occurred had Saddam Hussein been removed from power at the end of the first Gulf War?”

My reasoning is this (put quite simply)

After the Gulf War, the United States kept an increased presence in the Gulf region (more specifically in Saudi Arabia) to keep the heat on Saddam’s regime. The increased American military presence angered many Saudi’s…including one who defected. His name was Osama bin Laden. In an effort to rid the region of America’s military presence he masterminded the Al-Qaeda network…including attacks on foreign embassies, the USS Cole, the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon…just to name a few. It is my opinion that if Saddam originally had been removed from power that the Twin Towers would still be standing high and many families would still have their loved ones.

Except your facts are wrong. bin Laden was expelled from Saudi Arabia long before the Gulf War. He was trained, funded, and armed by the CIA to help combat the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80's. The Islamic terrorist organizations principally are concerned with more than just the military presence of the US, but also with the cultural, economic, and political presence of the US that is overbearing upon that and many other parts of the world.

Anyone who thinks that there is or was a chance for diplomacy in dealing with Saddam Hussein is INSANE. That’s like saying if we had just asked Hitler politely to leave Nazi Germany…he would have. Bottom line is this didn’t start after 9/11. This started TWELVE years ago people. 9/11 was a direct result of us TRYING to give diplomacy a chance by giving that Fuck-tard over there a SECOND chance and falling into his deceit.

Just like the email going around says “Get your head out of the sand and smell the Twin Towers burning…”

This started long, long, long beforehand. You seem to assume that there is some connection between Iraq and bin Laden, which has simply been unproven.

[steve-o]

Originally posted by Adam D
Except your facts are wrong. bin Laden was expelled from Saudi Arabia long before the Gulf War. He was trained, funded, and armed by the CIA to help combat the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80's. The Islamic terrorist organizations principally are concerned with more than just the military presence of the US, but also with the cultural, economic, and political presence of the US that is overbearing upon that and many other parts of the world.

You are correct...the Afghan jihad was backed with American dollars...anything to get those damn communists out of there. However, the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in LATE 1989 (shortly before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990) He went back to Saudi where he was presented with a travel ban and trapped within the nation. Despite the travel ban...he was not hostile to the regime at this stage. In fact, he presented a written advice in the form of a detailed, personal, private and confidential letter to the king few weeks before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. He even went as far as to give advice in detail on how to protect the country from potentially advancing Iraqi forces. In addition to many military tactics suggested, he volunteered to bring all the Arab mujahedeen to defend the kingdom. It was while he was waiting for a call to mobilize his men and equipment...that he received word that the US was coming. Osama himself, has always said that this day in particular was the day that transferred his life...and was "shocking news". After that moment he started lobbying through religious scholars and Muslim activists. Finally, fed up with his "house arrest" he left for Pakistan. He arrived in Pakistan around April 1991 (the Gulf War had already started…see your first comment) and sent a letter to his brother telling him that he is not coming back and apologized for letting him down with the royal family. Even though the Saudi’s attempted multiple times to kidnap or assassinate him, Osama bin Laden's Saudi citizenship was not PUBLICLY withdrawn unitl 1994 shortly after his arrival to Sudan (WAY AFTER the Gulf War) The Saudi’s were embarassed of him and tried to keep this from the public for a long time.

This started long, long, long beforehand. You seem to assume that there is some connection between Iraq and bin Laden, which has simply been unproven.

I never said there was a "direct-link" between the two. The US has had an Arab presence for a long time…but it’s increased presence since we have been on Saddam’ ass is a contributor towards Osama’s Anti-American actions. The time between the Afghan-Soviet war and the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait…is A LOT shorter than most people like to think.

[Sweet Imperfection]

Originally posted by hyoomen
Do you have a clue what you're talking about? Just what does Iraq have "coming to them"? Do you really mean Iraq? Or do you just mean Saddam Hussein and his cronies? What all did they do? Why should it all lead to war (let alone at this moment)?

Come on. If you really hated war, you'd actually be finding reasons to support your stance.

Okay i guess i should have clarified that Saddam Hussein has whats coming to him....not Iraq......and even tho i don't like war i'm not going to stand in the streets and protest it aganist it, the leaders of our country are going to do what they are going to do, and if this is what it comes to i'm going to support our troops.

I just hate how Saddam has got that poor county under his thumb and they have no control over it whatsoever.... he's sitting there hearing us try to bargain w/him, knowing that he has no intention of destroying his weapons of destruction, he doesnt give a shit if we go to war, as long as he isnt the one on the front line, he doesnt care to see his people die. He is such an evil man and it makes me sick to my stomach.

So when i say that he has what is coming to him, even tho i hate war, if war is the only thing that will bring him down, then so be it!