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Old 08-11-03, 01:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Palestinian DEATH TALLIES MISLEADING

This is an interesting link I ran across.

DEATH TALLIES MISLEADING
Background:
Recently released studies by Amnesty International (AI) and the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT dramatically underscore that the majority of Israelis and others killed by Palestinians since September 27, 2000 were non-combatants killed intentionally. Amnesty International found that "The attacks against civilians by Palestinian armed groups are widespread, systematic and in pursuit of an explicit policy to attack civilians. They therefore constitute crimes against humanity under international law."

In contrast to the intentional targeting of Israeli civilians by Palestinians, the study by ICT found that the majority of Palestinians and others killed by Israel since September 2000 were either Full Combatants, Probable Combatants, or Violent Protestors. 55% of Palestinians killed by Israelis fit these categories. Only 16.1% of Palestinian fatalities could be classified as definite non-combatants. The ICT study also found that less than 5% of the Palestinians killed by Israel were female, while 30% of the Israelis killed by Palestinians were female.

The Palestinian fatalities were more than 95% male and the ages of the Palestinians killed were overwhelmingly between 15 and 29. ICT concluded that "The pattern of Palestinian deaths is completely inconsistent with accusations that Israel has committed random attacks on residential areas, mixed-sex crowds at roadblocks, or other ordinary civilian gatherings.

"Israeli fatalities do not show such a high regularity in their age or gender distribution. Population segments like women or older people would not normally be specifically targeted for their military importance; thus their higher relative prevalence among Israeli fatalities is an indication of the degree to which [Israeli fatalities] were caused by random attacks on a civilian population. "

Amnesty International's study concurred with this conclusion. It noted that "The great majority of [Israeli] civilians were killed in direct or indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilian objects: the perpetrator targeted someone who they knew was not a member of the armed forces, or attacked a group of people among whom there were clearly many civilians."

Because Amnesty and ICT studied slightly different time periods, the percentages of Israeli civilians/noncombatants varied. Amnesty, whose study included data up until May 31, 2002, concluded that 70% of Israelis (and foreign workers) killed by the Palestinians were civilians. ICT included data up until June 30, 2002, and found that 78% of those killed by the Palestinians were civilians/non-combatants.

Amnesty International has released numerous reports about various Palestinian casualties, but we were unable to locate an Amnesty study that tallied and classified the Palestinian fatalities into combatant important to emphasize that Amnesty is typically harshly critical of Israel, often unfairly, and in fact there are several sections in their report regarding Israel's behavior that are flawed. They state as fact what are actually opinions that are contrary to the findings of numerous international law experts. This tendency of Amnesty to be hypercritical of Israel is what makes their strong statement accusing the Palestinians of "crimes against humanity" so newsworthy. One wonders why the media has given Amnesty's report -- and ICT's more comprehensive report-- so little coverage.

[Please note that the self-described human rights group, B'Tzelem, has also done a study, but it is so flawed, its results cannot be taken seriously. B'Tzelem made no distinction between a combatant and a noncombatant. Terrorists, if they were not officially employed by the Palestinian police or security forces, were simply called "civilians." For example, among what it labels as "Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli civilians," B'Tzelem includes Palestinian terrorists who are killed by Israelis during the terrorist attack. But even B'Tzelem concludes that the majority (67%) of Israelis and foreign workers killed by Palestinians were civilians.]

Death Tolls Without Any Context Are Misleading
Even though it is clear that the Palestinians target non-combatants, while the Israelis target combatants, the media continue to blur the distinction between terrorist and victim by providing death tolls that do not distinguish between combatants and noncombatants, and that do not distinguish between noncombatants killed on purpose or by accident.

For example, AP reported on July 17 that "In more than 21 months of fighting, 1,759 people have been killed on the Palestinian side, and 574 on the Israeli side." This is analogous to writing, "In more than 10 months of fighting, 5,267 people have been killed on the Al Qaeda side, and 2,830 have been killed on the American side." This wrongly gives moral equivalence to the killing of a terrorist and the murder of a civilian by the terrorist.

Aside from the moral equivalence issue, a death toll without context is misleading. Most readers likely assume that all the Palestinians in the death toll were killed by Israel. They would be surprised to learn that this tally of "killed on the Palestinian side" includes the more than 191 Palestinians who were killed when they 1) blew themselves up in terrorist attacks or 2) blew themselves up while preparing or transporting bombs, or 3) were suspected of collaborating with Israel and were executed by fellow Palestinians

See also CAMERA Op-Ed: Save the Children



Action Items:
1) Whenever you see or hear this type of distorted, misleading death toll, please respond with a phonecall or letter asking the editor/producer to use a more meaningful tally. For example, the reporter could write:

"Approximately 1570 Palestinians, mostly combatants, have been killed by Israel, while approximately 574 Israelis, mostly noncombatants, have been killed by the Palestinians. Additionally, 191 Palestinians have been killed when they blew themselves up preparing or executing a bomb attack against Israelis, or when they were killed as collaborators by other Palestinians."

Or, use the same first sentence as above, but add two new sentences:

"Approximately 1570 Palestinians, mostly combatants, have been killed by Israel, while approximately 574 Israelis, mostly noncombatants, have been killed by the Palestinians. 30% of the Israelis killed, and 4% of the Palestinians killed, were women. Additionally, 190 Palestinians have been killed by Palestinians and 13 Israelis have been killed by Israelis."

2) Encourage the media to use a meaningful tally, to distinguish terrorism from justified killing. Urge them not to use the simplistic and distorted "# of Palestinians killed" and "# of Israelis killed," unless they also include by whom, which would necessitate two more categories, such as "Palestinians killed by Palestinians" and "Israelis killed by Israelis." Stress that it is misleading to include Palestinian "suicide bombers" and Palestinians killed by Palestinians in a tally of "# of Palestinians killed," and that information about combatants vs. noncombatants should be included. Be sure to give an example of an appropriate, meaningful tally.
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Nature abhors a vacuum and religion is a powerful civilizing and socializing force. It is not perfect, but at least it does not deny human nature. Most leftest ideology is based upon the idea that evil is the result of social conditions/injustice, and simple misunderstandings. Man's nature is seen as both inherently good and infinitely malleable. It is believed that man can be made into something better through education and other social endeavors. The truth is that human nature is not inherently good and neither is terribly changable. Any system that denies the truth about human nature will be the victim of it. Communism is only one of the more horrific examples of this fundamental truth.

I understand why you're a socialist. You want to make the world a better place. What you need to understand is that not everyone can be helped and those who can are best served by providing them with the opportunity to help themselves.
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Old 08-11-03, 03:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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all I can say is........take that cnn
 
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Old 08-11-03, 09:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
the study by ICT found that the majority of Palestinians and others killed by Israel since September 2000 were either Full Combatants, Probable Combatants, or Violent Protestors.
Between "Probably Combatants" and "Violent Protestors" the study has divided up the Palestinean population in a way that marginalizes as much or as little of the population as they wish into "acceptable" categories of death.
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Old 08-12-03, 04:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam D
Between "Probably Combatants" and "Violent Protestors" the study has divided up the Palestinean population in a way that marginalizes as much or as little of the population as they wish into "acceptable" categories of death.

One question? Do you really see no difference between:

A 21 year old rock throwing male killed by soldiers while assaulting in the name of protest and

A 86 year old and her 6 month old granddaughter murdered by arab terrorists while grocery shopping.

"Probably Combatants" and "Violent Protestors" are facts and not just lies to cover up state sanctioned murder.
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Trey Brister

Nature abhors a vacuum and religion is a powerful civilizing and socializing force. It is not perfect, but at least it does not deny human nature. Most leftest ideology is based upon the idea that evil is the result of social conditions/injustice, and simple misunderstandings. Man's nature is seen as both inherently good and infinitely malleable. It is believed that man can be made into something better through education and other social endeavors. The truth is that human nature is not inherently good and neither is terribly changable. Any system that denies the truth about human nature will be the victim of it. Communism is only one of the more horrific examples of this fundamental truth.

I understand why you're a socialist. You want to make the world a better place. What you need to understand is that not everyone can be helped and those who can are best served by providing them with the opportunity to help themselves.
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Old 08-12-03, 08:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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i read one of those fucked up stats that listed the pal homocide bombers as casualties inflicted by the jews.
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Old 08-12-03, 08:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trey Brister
One question? Do you really see no difference between:

A 21 year old rock throwing male killed by soldiers while assaulting in the name of protest and

A 86 year old and her 6 month old granddaughter murdered by arab terrorists while grocery shopping.

"Probably Combatants" and "Violent Protestors" are facts and not just lies to cover up state sanctioned murder.
Both of those terms are completely ambiguous and justify killing. I'm not sure how you justify a "probable combatant" or why it is justified to kill somebody based on probability or why anybody would defend that notion. And as far as a "violent protestor" there's no definition between violent and nonviolent when it comes to military attacks for most of the world, including Israel and Iraq.
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Old 08-12-03, 09:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Why do semantics and statistics even matter when you have millions of people wanting to kill one another in the name of fanaticism and intolerance? We have two sides so driven by hatred that they will probably never cease to torment the other. One is state-sponsored and rationalized by our government, and the other is comprised of somewhat fragmented groups of radicals seeking revenge for crimes committed against them. Both sides are WRONG, both sides are driven by hatred for their neighbor, and both sides are largely unwilling to compromise, regardless of what the talking heads say. If you know many Israelis or Palestinians personally, and if you have experienced their situation up close as opposed to on the evening news, then you will know what I'm saying rings true. Taking sides and rationalizing the murder of one side does nothing to solve the problems, but instead works to prolong and intensify them.
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Old 08-12-03, 10:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Exactly Ryan, exactly.
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Old 08-12-03, 02:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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i think they are termed probable combatants because they fit the demographic and are killed at the same time and place as people that are known combatants.

you see, if you don't want your women and babies to suffer combat, you shouldn't hide behind them. you DEFINATELY shouldn't target other people's women and babies.

say what you want about the IDF guys, at least you know who they are when you see them. those hamas pussies dress like civs 99.9% of the time. the other .1% is when they're having their stupid rallies and then they wear hoods over thier faces.

the palestinians are lucky that the jews show as much restraint as they do. if the jews did all they could to kill the palestinians the way the palestinians are trying to kill the jews, the whole thing would be over in a weekend.
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Old 08-12-03, 04:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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all i can say is.

we should take thier land away from both of them. they act like children we should treat them like children. they cant behave i say we give the land to Bosnian Serbs or Northern Irish Catholics or somthing......



and this solution makes more sense than the stupid behavior and ignorance thats been occuring over there.
 
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Old 08-13-03, 05:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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both sides are largely unwilling to compromise, regardless of what the talking heads say
The holiest site in Judaism, and the third holiest site in Islam sit right on top of each other, the Temple Mount, and that is why there will never be peace in the middle east. Muhammed made his way to Jerusalem one year, and tried to convert the jews into muslims, and they pretty much to him to piss off! Muslim law, Once muslims conquer land, it must always remain in muslim hands, thats why the arabs say its there land, but it is not there land. Muslims have no claim whatsoever when it comes to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. Israel should never compromise when it comes to har habyit
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