New School Requirements

[Adam D]

Public school students are required as of Labor Day to recite the pledges of allegience to both the US and Texas flag, unless a parent signs an opt-out form. In addition, students must observe a moment of silence either to meditate or pray.

I'm not sure whether violation of this law constitutes a school-based offense with school-based punishments or if a citation is to be issued for violation.


I am curious what people think about this.

[USAcommitteeX]

Public school students are required as of Labor Day to recite the pledges of allegience to both the US and Texas flag, unless a parent signs an opt-out form

When they arrive at school, for the ones who want to say the pledge, say it in a certain area, then goto class, better that way then going to class then asking the ones who don't want to say it to leave the room.

I had to say the pledge when i was in kindergarten through like 2nd grade.

I think its kinda rediculous.

Politics aside. . .I have been told that Joahova Witness's are religioiusly against it because of the whole "Thou shall have no God before me" idol worship thing. Seems like this new rule is infringing on their right to different beliefs a bit. Esspecially if you have to have the parents signature to not participate. Then there is the whole ". . .one nation under God. . ." thing. So now, non-christians have to have their parents signed-permission to abstain from declaring allegiance to a Christian state.

[seksybeetchkerri]

I think the opt-out thing is a good idea.


so that way the parents who dont like it.. can have thier choice on whether or not their child does it or not.


I personally always liked the pledge of allegience, but then again.. i went to private school most of my life.. and we had to do it during chapel every morning....


soooo i guess i was grown accustomed to it.

[Ryan]

I think the whole thing is kinda creepy. In no other civilized country on Earth are people required to pledge allegiance to their flag as children. And why would I pledge allegiance to Texas? I have about as much loyalty to this state as Kobe Briant does to his wife.

[Cock Puncher]

me being a church going man, I like the moment of silence, but I don't think it should be in the schools. Ya they can use it to meditate or what ever they want to call it, but school and state are supposed to be seperate

Originally posted by damn-it-2-hell
me being a church going man, I like the moment of silence, but I don't think it should be in the schools. Ya they can use it to meditate or what ever they want to call it, but school and state are supposed to be seperate

Lets give a dollar to the man who makes a point that nearly everyone seems to forget. . .the separation of church and state.

And, I can't be sure about this, but I think pledging allegiance to a state body is illegal. That's what the whole Civil War thing was about. . .a state's right vs. federal interests. Of course the State of Texas is the only state in the Union that has it written in the state constitution that Texas can succede from the Union. . .which again is actually illegal.

But, like they say. . .It a whole other country!

[[aNNa]]

why is the opt-out option even NECESSARY??!!

that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard..
students are individuals too.
they are capable of making their own choices;
they do so on a day to day basis.

therefore, it should be their choice to say it
or not say it. having the parents opt-out for
them is to say that the students don't have
their own best interests at heart...
[unless they are too young to understand
what they are even doing.. but even that
makes the pledge even more ridiculous.]

but can the school be said to have their
best interests at heart?
certainly not, seeing as how students are
now required to "worship" a flag and chant
words [whose meaning many of them don't
even care about or know] in unison.

bottomline:

it's ridiculous.

Originally posted by [aNNa]
why is the opt-out option even NECESSARY??!!

that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard..
students are individuals too.
they are capable of making their own choices;
they do so on a day to day basis.

Esspecially since many schools will convieniently forget to inform parents that they need to sign a piece of paper if they don't want their child participating. . .thereby forcing a lot of kids to do something they (and their parents) are against. Which is a right in this country (like it or not): the right to be against stuff.

[[aNNa]]

Originally posted by designbydance
Esspecially since many schools will convieniently forget to inform parents that they need to sign a piece of paper if they don't want their child participating. . .thereby forcing a lot of kids to do something they (and their parents) are against. Which is a right in this country (like it or not): the right to be against stuff.

right on.
i forgot about that kind of covert nonsense
on the part of some schools.

*shakes her head*

so many people don't even know what their
rights are.. and among those who don't,
more often than not, information about their
rights are conveniently withheld.
and what would the school's response be?

"well... you didn't ask."

how can we expect people to know about
options that are available to them
when they aren't even cognizant of such options?

you brought up a good point.

[johnny861]

school prayer aside (seperation of church and state),

Pledging allegiance to the flag holds a traditional value...


I did it as a kid, I was also taught a lot of things as a kid. My parents did it, my grandparents...

It's the notion of american tradition, a since of religio (a binding back together), It's traditions like these that keep our culture identified

America is a nation of immigrants, each bringing their own culture to integrate within the American culture. But America, is not different from other nations in that it has its own culture developed from a growing history.

It would be sad to suggest that America cannot have traditions of its own, but other nations are allowed to...

I find myself one of the only people that takes off his hat and puts his hand over his heart during games... most people will be quiet though.. others tend to keep talking and ignore it... It's a tradition lost by people without a real cultural identity...

To me, that was a part of American tradition, a relatively new tradition, but a new tradition of a young nation, that has all but been wiped out...


Instead, many Americans cannot find culture or traditions with the modern American society, which has struck them down, and so, do their soul searching elsewhere, identifying with other cultures...

Americans have also lost classical education and traditional rearing among losing its many traditions...

We are quick to strike down our own traditions and culture, but feel saddened when other countries begin to lose theirs...

I find this behavior very odd... or perhaps just naive...

I actually agree with everything you say, 100%. I love America and its traditions. I put my hand over my heart also.

But another of our greatest traditions, is the right to not participate. We may not always like it, but a time will come for every individual to find themself not wanting to take part in a certain activity, for whatever reason. That right should not only be protected, but it shouldn't be made difficult to practice.

As a non-christian, I find the ". . .one nation under God. . ." part of the pledge offensive. It wasn't even part of the original. It was added by Eisnehower in the 1950's as a conservative campaign pledge.

A lot of people in this country, like myself, are willing to pledge our alliegence to this country. . .but not a God we aren't required by law to believe in.

That is why I believe in not forcing kids to partake in a tradition they and their parents may not feel comfortable with. Especially in the case of Joahova's Witnesses, who feel it is idol worship.

[Adam D]

My problem with the moment of silence is that they have codified the idea that it exists for the purpose of praying. Why does time need to be taken out of what will amount to TAKS testing prep to meditate, pray, etc.? I don't see any reason for this, other than the inevitable reinsertion of prayer back into school. I don't think this is the key issue here, though.

The idea that students are forced to pledge allegience to a flag is quite unsettling. I always though allegience was supposed to be something that an individual chooses. Moreover, if the idea is to promote patriotism, you do not find patriotism in forcing it, but by choice. Compounding the problem is that the only opt-out is by parental consent. This sends the message that students are not capable of making a decision on who or what they feel they should pledge allegience to. You remove that choice, and not only do you violate the freedom of speech, but you move away from a free society altogether.

the key words here are "opt out"

if they dont want to they dont have to.

yea im shure some backwater school would neglect to tell thier students and parents about this. and im shure that some hairy backed dad will refuse to sign it for his "commie fag kid".
thats when the court cases start.

but if you dont want to you dont have to. choice....the taste of democracy.

and well, if you dont know why your saying the pledge then your teachers and parents havent educated you well enough, or you just dont care enough to know. which in both cases is sad.

but the flag. eh, fuck the flag. id rather swear allegiance to the constitution and the idea of the United States. not a scrap of cloth.