Abortion

Here's another thought:

There are couples out there that want a baby so badly they'd be more than willing to pay for all medical and living expenses for that girl for the duration of her pregnancy. People seem to forget that adoption is an option for some reason. You don't have to kill your kid if you don't want it.

Originally posted by candie_baby

Here's a thought:

If a 15 year old girl living in the streets became pregnant, do you believe it would be best for her (not knowing what kinds of diseases she has picked up) to try and keep a baby or to have an abortion?

[Bridger]

If a 15 year old girl living in the streets became pregnant, do you believe it would be best for her (not knowing what kinds of diseases she has picked up) to try and keep a baby or to have an abortion?

in my own experience i have seen that young homeless pregnant teens usually decide to keep their baby to strengthen their self image.....


and yes i have seen this more than once

Originally posted by zen2k
What is so amusing about it is that many people at the time thought it was serious and even liked the idea.

I'm gonna find it difficult to believe that people ever found the suggestion of eating Irish babies a good and acceptbale solution to a problem in Ireland.

You're suggesting that canabalism was not looked upon with horror here zek2k.

Originally posted by zen2k
If you support the mother being able to abort the child she is carrying, then do you also support the right of the mother to, at any point in time in the child's life, kill that child? I mean, either way, the child is being killed, so why does it matter when it happens?

In most circumstances, the woman has become pregnant either because a) she wanted to or b) she or the father did not take the proper precautions when having sex or c) she was raped.

Since she as well as the father made the decision to have sex in the first place, they need to understand there is a chance of pregnany and that, in fact, the entire point of sex is procreation. So if it happens, they need to have the child and then either properly care for it or immediately give it up for adoption.

The ONLY exceptions I can see to this are as follows:

- If a woman is raped and as a result becomes pregnant, then a difficult situation arises. I know that if I was a woman and was raped and became pregnant, the last thing I would probably want to do is have that child.

- If a woman becomes pregnant and has a terminal disease (such as AIDS) that would be passed onto the child, then the child should probably be aborted to spare it a short life of pain and suffering for no reason.

Who do you think this benefits?

The aborted child has no chance.

The child permitted to be born has 2 options A) born with AIDS and B) born without. If B the debate need go no further if the goal is to spare a child livng with AIDS.

If A - an aborted child is denied the opportunity to benefit from advances in medicine that may extend the child's life or even save it.

Originally posted by zen2k
- If the process of giving birth is determined to be more than likely fatal for the mother (due to any reason, such as a bad heart), then there is no reason to expect the woman to try and have the child anyway at the cost of her own life.

The only reason I tend to NOT be pro-choice in most situations is because I know that if abortion would soon just become a way of life and you would have the same women over and over getting abortions because its easier than dealing with consequences.

I guess what it comes to is how much you value human life. There are over 6 billion people on this Earth and most of them really don't do all that much, and soon having a child will be like ordering a pizza -- pick what you want, give them your credit card, and wait for delivery. How special does THAT make human life?

Originally posted by candie_baby
I was waiting in the ER and looked at a 1 month old baby lying on a stretcher dead. The mother threw her baby across the room and she was standing there crying.

If you know you cannot handle the responsibility, save it the torture of living to begin with.

If you're going to kill it later - kill it sooner?

Odd philosophy.

Originally posted by bridger

c) this will lead to nuclear war and we all die
d) statistics........they show that...............there are more people in the world today....................thats china's fault!

not as good as crossing out miracle and making the back page of the Observer at work read " Turn an unplanned pregnacy into a meal" MMMMgood! that was awesome

[alexican]

Originally posted by TragicallyUnhip
Here's another thought:

There are couples out there that want a baby so badly they'd be more than willing to pay for all medical and living expenses for that girl for the duration of her pregnancy. People seem to forget that adoption is an option for some reason. You don't have to kill your kid if you don't want it.

this is so true but what deters people i think is all the red tape, lawyers, and bullshit you'd have to go through to get a child. i know people who have been on waiting lists to adopt children for years and still nothing. i'll be one of those people though, one day, on those waiting lists. adoption is definitely something that i want to do. especially from like a third world country...but thats me getting off the point.

i can imagine though that the mother wouldn't be so jazzed to let another woman raise her child. i mean, there's selfishness involved (mostly) when they make the decision to abort the baby so why wouldn't there be the same selfishness involved when deciding to give your child away? kinda of like "I can't/won't have you so no one else will"; fucked up for sure.

[candie_baby]

My whole point was just to say that I think it is their own decision.

[undergrowth]

decide your own....but if your gonna treat the child or attempt to take care of them in a half ass manner then you might as well kill it


i ran into a girl i went to school with that is preg. and she was smoking and drinking and other stuff when she was 7 months p. wtf? i was so outraged at the fact that a life....


a human life was being fucked beyond there control that drama almost insued....much drama...

i went out back and sat by myself it was so bad.....but i dunno


who am i to judge...its all in the circumstances

Originally posted by RainbowBriteB29
this is so true but what deters people i think is all the red tape, lawyers, and bullshit you'd have to go through to get a child. i know people who have been on waiting lists to adopt children for years and still nothing.

All the bullshit you refer to adheres to the adoptive parents - not the mother or the child.

As such it isn't really relevent to the question of aborting a child.

Are you suggesting that a mother wishing to give her child up would rather abort than go through the "red tape, lawyers and bullshit"?

Originally posted by RainbowBriteB29
i'll be one of those people though, one day, on those waiting lists. adoption is definitely something that i want to do. especially from like a third world country...but thats me getting off the point.

i can imagine though that the mother wouldn't be so jazzed to let another woman raise her child.

So killing it is a decent option?

Originally posted by RainbowBriteB29
i mean, there's selfishness involved (mostly) when they make the decision to abort the baby so why wouldn't there be the same selfishness involved when deciding to give your child away? kinda of like "I can't/won't have you so no one else will"; fucked up for sure.

Agreed.

Originally posted by undergrowth
decide your own....but if your gonna treat the child or attempt to take care of them in a half ass manner then you might as well kill it


i ran into a girl i went to school with that is preg. and she was smoking and drinking and other stuff when she was 7 months p. wtf? i was so outraged at the fact that a life....


a human life was being fucked beyond there control that drama almost insued....much drama...

i went out back and sat by myself it was so bad.....but i dunno


who am i to judge...its all in the circumstances

Who are you to judge?

You are you - and as such you are not just permitted but in many cases entitled or more to be upset or outraged at the poor decisions of another.

At times the problem isn't a shortage of tolerance but a shortage of intolerance. The shoulder shrugging "I guess its not my place to say anything." if more people were willing to stand up for what they believe - as in - you believed the behavior you saw was inappropriate - maybe we'd see less inappropriate behavior......I mean really - who is going to criticize you for suggesting to a preganant woman thaty drinking and smoking at 7 months is maybe not such a good idea?

i think people can argue all day and night long whether abortion is right or wrong.

i'm pro-choice. not because i think abortion is RIGHT. but because i don't want us to go back to how it was when it was illegal. the option NEEDS to be there. we can't go back to coathangers and botched abortions in alleys and greedy people who aren't doctors performing abortions because all the real doctors are afraid to. adoption is a wonderful idea, but let's face it. if the mother decides she doesn't want the child, most of them won't want to carry it around for 9 months. i know a girl right now who's pregnant with her second unplanned child (she kept the first) and she's planning on giving it up for adoption. however, with this one, i see her at the bar, whiskey and cigarettes in hand, cause she just doesn't care. that unwanted child already has 2 strikes against it.

i'm not happy with the idea of abortions being looked at as a new form of birth control. there's not really much you can do to limit that though.

when you get older and possibly have a daughter and if she gets pregnant at 16 (everyone thinks it can't happen to them, you know) and you know she can't keep that child or even carry it, do you want to take her to a dirty little illegal clinic and pay way too much for an un-licensed doctor to hack at her insides? all because abortion is no longer legal. i doubt it. pregnancy happens to all types of people.

Originally posted by TrixieBella
i think people can argue all day and night long whether abortion is right or wrong.

i'm pro-choice. not because i think abortion is RIGHT. but because i don't want us to go back to how it was when it was illegal. the option NEEDS to be there. we can't go back to coathangers and botched abortions in alleys and greedy people who aren't doctors performing abortions because all the real doctors are afraid to. adoption is a wonderful idea, but let's face it. if the mother decides she doesn't want the child, most of them won't want to carry it around for 9 months. i know a girl right now who's pregnant with her second unplanned child (she kept the first) and she's planning on giving it up for adoption. however, with this one, i see her at the bar, whiskey and cigarettes in hand, cause she just doesn't care. that unwanted child already has 2 strikes against it.

i'm not happy with the idea of abortions being looked at as a new form of birth control. there's not really much you can do to limit that though.

when you get older and possibly have a daughter and if she gets pregnant at 16 (everyone thinks it can't happen to them, you know) and you know she can't keep that child or even carry it, do you want to take her to a dirty little illegal clinic and pay way too much for an un-licensed doctor to hack at her insides? all because abortion is no longer legal. i doubt it. pregnancy happens to all types of people.

I think the discussion was less, "should abortion be legal" and more "when would it be appropriate."

[alexican]

Originally posted by xiannaix
All the bullshit you refer to adheres to the adoptive parents - not the mother or the child.

As such it isn't really relevent to the question of aborting a child.

Are you suggesting that a mother wishing to give her child up would rather abort than go through the "red tape, lawyers and bullshit"?




So killing it is a decent option?





Agreed.

no, all the bullshit affects the child as well; being shuttled from one foster home to another, living with total strangers, not having a stable life, not being surrounded by those who love you. its a hard decision either way; abort your child or possibly condemn her/him to a life of feeling alone and unwanted. i mean, yeah there's a good chance that they'll be adopted by a nice family but once they're older it gets harder to be adopted. most people want to adopt babies or little kids, not tweens and teens. i dunno. i'm just trying to see it from the mother's point of view.

Originally posted by RainbowBriteB29
no, all the bullshit affects the child as well; being shuttled from one foster home to another, living with total strangers, not having a stable life, not being surrounded by those who love you. its a hard decision either way; abort your child or possibly condemn her/him to a life of feeling alone and unwanted. i mean, yeah there's a good chance that they'll be adopted by a nice family but once they're older it gets harder to be adopted. most people want to adopt babies or little kids, not tweens and teens. i dunno. i'm just trying to see it from the mother's point of view.

I thought we were discussing giving an unborn child to adoptive parents. Kids that are shuffled about cannot be easily aborted.

The suggestion had been made that adoptive parents often pay all medical and living expenses for the mother until delivery as well as frequently donating a sum in consideration of the gift from the mother.

Healthy children rarely go long without a family eager to adopt.

It is the child not given at birth that faces the dilemas you speak of. Children who've been taken from their families by the State that face the fate of shuffling and being unwanted.

So - the bullshit does NOT effect the child relevent to the debate of abortion.

The red tape becomes a siginifcat factor in the child taken from his family and placed into the "system" - with that you are without doubt directly on point.