Abortion

[alexican]

"The wait is typically between two and seven years for a healthy infant." (from www.adopt.org in the FAQs "How Long Will It Take To Adopt)

now you tell me thats not a long time to wait to have a family
and notice it says HEALTHY INFANT

Originally posted by RainbowBriteB29
"The wait is typically between two and seven years for a healthy infant." (from www.adopt.org in the FAQs "How Long Will It Take To Adopt)

now you tell me thats not a long time to wait to have a family
and notice it says HEALTHY INFANT

Yes, ok - but there are no INFANTS that wait 2 years - the adoptive parents wait that long....BIG difference.

Perhaps we mean the same thing and are speaking past one another.

What I mean to say is that red tape is no reason not to give a child up for adoption - the cost, stress of paper work etc is carried by the adoptive parents - not the mother giving her child up for adoption....she'll have her own hardships with that, which should not go underappreciated....rather, her gift should be lauded.

Given the fact that there is a waiting list for healthy (especially white) babies - red tape to the mother seems a weak reason to abort a child - that's all I meant.

[alexican]

Originally posted by xiannaix
Yes, ok - but there are no INFANTS that wait 2 years - the adoptive parents wait that long....BIG difference.

Perhaps we mean the same thing and are speaking past one another.

What I mean to say is that red tape is no reason not to give a child up for adoption - the cost, stress of paper work etc is carried by the adoptive parents - not the mother giving her child up for adoption....she'll have her own hardships with that, which should not go underappreciated....rather, her gift should be lauded.

Given the fact that there is a waiting list for healthy (especially white) babies - red tape to the mother seems a weak reason to abort a child - that's all I meant.

i know
like i said though, i'm just trying to see things from the mother's point of view
that is all

Originally posted by RainbowBriteB29
no, all the bullshit affects the child as well; being shuttled from one foster home to another, living with total strangers, not having a stable life, not being surrounded by those who love you. its a hard decision either way; abort your child or possibly condemn her/him to a life of feeling alone and unwanted. i mean, yeah there's a good chance that they'll be adopted by a nice family but once they're older it gets harder to be adopted. most people want to adopt babies or little kids, not tweens and teens. i dunno. i'm just trying to see it from the mother's point of view.

totally agree, I was one of those kids one foster home to another till I was 8, but i'm glad I got the chance to live, and anyone would would have taken that away from me, if I was alive I would wish death upon. Just because you're mom is stupid hoe and can't keep her legs shut you are denyed existence on this earth, fuck that!

Originally posted by Dj Bastard Mike
totally agree, I was one of those kids one foster home to another till I was 8, but i'm glad I got the chance to live, and anyone would would have taken that away from me, if I was alive I would wish death upon. Just because you're mom is stupid hoe and can't keep her legs shut you are denyed existence on this earth, fuck that!

You're exactly right.

Don't condemn the child for the failures of the parents.

[Krash]

Originally posted by xiannaix
You're exactly right.

Don't condemn the child for the failures of the parents.

Word.

Originally posted by xiannaix
You're exactly right.

Don't condemn the child for the failures of the parents.

so if i was 15 and got date raped by a guy i went to school with and i chose to abort the child, i would be wrong cause getting raped was my own fault? you all are probably in favor of absistance-only sex education in school. after all, why give them ideas?

and what if that child i'm carrying is found out to have some sort of major, but not life-threatening birth defect? while there ARE the occassional couples who will take on a less than perfect child that is not their own, there aren't many. that child will have a hard time being adopted. i'm not saying that less-than-perfect children deserve to die. i'm just trying to paint an accurate picture of the whole adoption thing.


sometimes birth control fails. the pill doesn't always work. the parents might not be "failures". there are so many different circumstances. i think when most people think abortion, they think teenagers girls in trouble. they don't think of a poor married couple who took the precautions and still wound up pregnant. they don't think of the woman with health problems who took the precautions and still ended up pregnant.

[Adam D]

hi spring

Originally posted by TrixieBella
so if i was 15 and got date raped by a guy i went to school with and i chose to abort the child, i would be wrong cause getting raped was my own fault? you all are probably in favor of absistance-only sex education in school. after all, why give them ideas?

and what if that child i'm carrying is found out to have some sort of major, but not life-threatening birth defect? while there ARE the occassional couples who will take on a less than perfect child that is not their own, there aren't many. that child will have a hard time being adopted. i'm not saying that less-than-perfect children deserve to die. i'm just trying to paint an accurate picture of the whole adoption thing.


sometimes birth control fails. the pill doesn't always work. the parents might not be "failures". there are so many different circumstances. i think when most people think abortion, they think teenagers girls in trouble. they don't think of a poor married couple who took the precautions and still wound up pregnant. they don't think of the woman with health problems who took the precautions and still ended up pregnant.

There is a great deal of difference from dealing with a pregnancy due to suffering the indignities of a brutal criminal act and simlpy being dumb and not takng proper precautions. A crime is not a mistake - it is an intentional act - the victim cannot be held to blame for that and I never even remotely suggested such a thing.

Don't cast such aspersions about what I favor - read what I write please. I do believe abstinence should be part of a sex ed. course - certainly not exclusive but defenitely as part of a larger program.

Certainly carrying a child with known defect is a difficult issue to deal with. Aborting is an option - however, so is adoption - no matter how difficult it is to find a parent. Again, the child has a chance - the dead one has none.

Yes, sometimes all the precautions in the world do not prevent a pregnancy.

Again - I'm not saying abortion shouldn't be aoption - I'm sayng it should be greatly disfavored when compared against the alternatives to ending a life.

Originally posted by Adam D
hi spring

hi adam =)

[alexican]

Originally posted by TrixieBella
so if i was 15 and got date raped by a guy i went to school with and i chose to abort the child, i would be wrong cause getting raped was my own fault? you all are probably in favor of absistance-only sex education in school. after all, why give them ideas?

and what if that child i'm carrying is found out to have some sort of major, but not life-threatening birth defect? while there ARE the occassional couples who will take on a less than perfect child that is not their own, there aren't many. that child will have a hard time being adopted. i'm not saying that less-than-perfect children deserve to die. i'm just trying to paint an accurate picture of the whole adoption thing.


sometimes birth control fails. the pill doesn't always work. the parents might not be "failures". there are so many different circumstances. i think when most people think abortion, they think teenagers girls in trouble. they don't think of a poor married couple who took the precautions and still wound up pregnant. they don't think of the woman with health problems who took the precautions and still ended up pregnant.

i see your point however, there is a HUGE difference between a rape resulting in pregnancy and an unplanned pregnancy. i i was raped and found out i was pregnant, i'd probably abort the child. i don't think i could live with a tangible reminder of that harrific crime. however, this goes back to the "don't blame/punish the child" remark. i used to use this argument when my brother and i would debate abortion.

life-threatening brith defects are another story. i think it would be cruel to bring a seriously deformed or ill child into this world. and i'm not talking about retardation or anything; i'm talking about the kind of defects that would either prevent the child from living a remotely normal life or would inevitably cause early death. but then again, there's always a chance that technology will be able to help in one way or another.

abstinence only plans are bullshit. people who think they can convince horny teenagers to keep it in their pants are only kidding themselves. yes, there are those out there who follow the abstinence way but its not a majority (oh, i just know people are gonna bitch at me for that comment!) if you think opposite, prove me wrong. find 20 virgins (anal sex only does not mean you're a virgin!). i think i know like 3. one girl has never even been kissed and plans to have her first kiss on her wedding day. seriously.

and there are almost no unplanned pregnancies when the pill is taken regularly and coupled with a condom. the pill alone it 99.9% effective but when you skip days or take them at irregular times, its much less effective.

Originally posted by RainbowBriteB29
i see your point however, there is a HUGE difference between a rape resulting in pregnancy and an unplanned pregnancy.

i understand, but i think that with keeping abotion legal, it's either all or nothing. you can say, abortions are only legal to those with pregnancies resulting from rape, incest, or health problems. but then, i can see a lot of 15 year old girls crying rape unfairly just to get an abortion. abortions for everyone, or abortions for no one.

and to the person who so kindly pointed out to me that this is about abortion being morally right or wrong, and not about abortion being legal or illegal. the issues go hand in hand, don't they? i guess i see it like this. abortion as a moral issue is the smoke. abortion as a legal issue is the cigarette. you can't really grasp the smoke. but you can sure grasp the cigarette. so do something with it. and the moral issues decide the legal issues. i don't think it's right or wrong, but i KNOW that i don't want to have to witness a world that makes it illegal.

Originally posted by TrixieBella
and the moral issues decide the legal issues. i don't think it's right or wrong, but i KNOW that i don't want to have to witness a world that makes it illegal.

Just because one can .. does not mean one should.

I find it odd that you've got no moral sense one way or the other about abortion. You'd probably be in fairly limited company.

Lastly, as far as I am aware no one suggested that abortion be criminalized.

[alexican]

Originally posted by TrixieBella
i understand, but i think that with keeping abotion legal, it's either all or nothing. you can say, abortions are only legal to those with pregnancies resulting from rape, incest, or health problems. but then, i can see a lot of 15 year old girls crying rape unfairly just to get an abortion. abortions for everyone, or abortions for no one.

huh, i never thought of that before

Originally posted by xiannaix
Just because one can .. does not mean one should.

I find it odd that you've got no moral sense one way or the other about abortion. You'd probably be in fairly limited company.

Lastly, as far as I am aware no one suggested that abortion be criminalized.

no, of course not. abortions should be well-thought out. they should be a last resort. (however, a "breaking point" is a highly personal thing). but it's like what i said above about all or none. there's isn't a way to set limits on who should get one. and if there were limits, people would find ways around them.

i've got an amazing amount of moral sense when it comes to abortions. but all of my sentiment and emotion doens't mean anything when it comes to the legality of it all, does it?

and if abortion is made illegal, then providing one will become a criminal act. and recieving one will be a criminal act. so if you need one, then your chances of ending up with some type of disease from dirty instruments, some type of internal injury or scarring from unskilled "doctors", and some jail time are looking pretty good.