Abortion

What if abortion was still legal but the mother had to do it with a coathanger, you think abortion would drop?

What the fuck is that?


If heart transplant surgery was still legal but the patient had to do it himself would we see fewer heart translpants?






The issue is not the qualifications of the practicioner.

The issue is marginally related to the safety of the procedure.

The issue is predicated on the notion that it is no one's goddamn business what is going on inside your body.



And a caveat to those who note my fairly staunch conservative stance..... privacy is at the heart of conservatism.

Have you ever read "A Modest Proposal" by Jonathan Swift?

Originally posted by zen2k
Have you ever read "A Modest Proposal" by Jonathan Swift?

I've commented on it obliquely in several threads.....very amusing stuff.

[alexican]

Originally posted by zen2k
Have you ever read "A Modest Proposal" by Jonathan Swift?

yes and the sarcasm of it it hilarious
and there is NO WAY that abortion would be legal if it was done in such a barbaric way
did you foget that there's a Hypocratic Oath doctors MUST take before they can practice? DO NO HARM is one of the first promises
i remember hearing about some girl at either BL or BD who had somebody do this kind of thing to her behind the gym; dunno if it was true or not....
ugh, just the thought of stabbing your insides with a coat hanger makes me sick

What is so amusing about it is that many people at the time thought it was serious and even liked the idea. Seeing the state of American society, I can't help but wonder if it would have been equally believed today.

I think illegal abortion is probably a double-edged sword; it will obviously reduce the abortion rate, but it does nothing to solve the problem of these children born to mother's who do not want them and might not properly care for them or be able to care for them. And adoption is not always the cure for this.

Legal abortion of course has its own set of ethical and moral issues with the public, which I'm sure everyone is aware of. My opinion on the matter is actually pretty ambivalent.

yes but abortion consider the same thing as a condom now days, anther form of birth control, if you get pregnat don't worry someone will kill it for you. how nice

[candie_baby]

I love my 2 children and I couldn't imagine putting my own body thru that kind of torture to not have them in my life.

I'm all about letting the girl decide for herself if that's the best idea.

It is very hard to raise a child and if you are not mature enough to handle the responsibility then go for it. I think about the life that poor child would be forced to live if it was born. I finally reached a point where I don't have to have government help anymore and can support us 100% with no help from anyone, not even the assholes who call themselves fathers.

Here's a thought:

If a 15 year old girl living in the streets became pregnant, do you believe it would be best for her (not knowing what kinds of diseases she has picked up) to try and keep a baby or to have an abortion?

If you support the mother being able to abort the child she is carrying, then do you also support the right of the mother to, at any point in time in the child's life, kill that child? I mean, either way, the child is being killed, so why does it matter when it happens?

In most circumstances, the woman has become pregnant either because a) she wanted to or b) she or the father did not take the proper precautions when having sex or c) she was raped.

Since she as well as the father made the decision to have sex in the first place, they need to understand there is a chance of pregnany and that, in fact, the entire point of sex is procreation. So if it happens, they need to have the child and then either properly care for it or immediately give it up for adoption.

The ONLY exceptions I can see to this are as follows:

- If a woman is raped and as a result becomes pregnant, then a difficult situation arises. I know that if I was a woman and was raped and became pregnant, the last thing I would probably want to do is have that child.

- If a woman becomes pregnant and has a terminal disease (such as AIDS) that would be passed onto the child, then the child should probably be aborted to spare it a short life of pain and suffering for no reason.

- If the process of giving birth is determined to be more than likely fatal for the mother (due to any reason, such as a bad heart), then there is no reason to expect the woman to try and have the child anyway at the cost of her own life.

The only reason I tend to NOT be pro-choice in most situations is because I know that if abortion would soon just become a way of life and you would have the same women over and over getting abortions because its easier than dealing with consequences.

I guess what it comes to is how much you value human life. There are over 6 billion people on this Earth and most of them really don't do all that much, and soon having a child will be like ordering a pizza -- pick what you want, give them your credit card, and wait for delivery. How special does THAT make human life?

[candie_baby]

Originally posted by zen2k
I mean, either way, the child is being killed, so why does it matter when it happens?

I was waiting in the ER and looked at a 1 month old baby lying on a stretcher dead. The mother threw her baby across the room and she was standing there crying.

If you know you cannot handle the responsibility, save it the torture of living to begin with.

So, say you have a child, and three years down the road you suddenly cannot handle the responsibility for whatever reason. Is killing your child suddenly now an option?

I agree, seeing a one month old baby in the ER because of a irresponsible mother is horrible. But even if she could have aborted the baby, what's to say she would have? She could have still had the baby and still been careless with it. No matter what, we will continue to see infants in the ER because of abusive, careless parents.

[Krash]

Originally posted by zen2k
- If a woman becomes pregnant and has a terminal disease (such as AIDS) that would be passed onto the child, then the child should probably be aborted to spare it a short life of pain and suffering for no reason.

A child delivered by caesarian section has very littel chance of contracting AIDS from the mother, iirc.

[candie_baby]

Who am I to tell someone else what they can and can't do.

I have friends who had abortions and I have friends who had their babies.

It is all their decision to make, not anybody else.

I would never be able to murder my own child, but I'm not going to sit back and tell someone else they can't do something that the law allows them to do.

Yeah, the odds are very, very slim the child will be infected if the mother gets treatment. I know someone who found out she was HIV positive from a routine bloodtest they did when they found out she was pregnant. She'd only been with two people in her entire life. It was really horrible for her but the baby is fine. He's 2 now.

Originally posted by Krash
A child delivered by caesarian section has very littel chance of contracting AIDS from the mother, iirc.

[Bridger]

What if abortion was still legal but the mother had to do it with a coathanger, you think abortion would drop?

a coathanger is a tool that is traditionally used in the more secretive, shamefully or fearfully driven abortions
this question suggests that some mandate would force women to turn what is now a safe medical procedure into a shameful public display, [assuming that enforcement would provide public witness(es)]
this mandate would not reduce abortions because
a) (broad protest) it objectifies women and promotes self abuse something neither women voters nor the state would support unless the country was still being governed by puritans
b) the other means a woman can abort will become expensive and less regulated
and of course
c) this will lead to nuclear war and we all die
d) statistics........they show that...............there are more people in the world today....................thats china's fault!