Music Education

[Left]

Share with us some fact or perspective of yours on music we can benefit from.
It could be something you find interesting, or even confusing.
This could range from basic music theory, to interactive electronics in music, to "don't drink too much while mixing."



I'll start.

The most basic progression underlying much of Western music (classical to current pop) in roman numerals is simply, I-V-I. This means that in, say, the key of C, you start with your I-chord ("tonic" = Cmajor), eventually progress to the V-chord ("dominant" = Gmajor), and then back to I, or Cmajor. Roman numerals are used because they can apply to any key, say F#major (I-V-I = F#-C#-F#). In a minor key, say Cminor, the chords would be Cminor, GMAJOR, Cminor or i-V-i (lowercase roman numerals = minor chord)
Now other chords may occur within this basic groundwork and/or substitute for these chords based on tonal theories, but that goes beyond the scope of my humble post here. This basic progression gives the listener a feeling of being grounded in the home key (tonic, or I), then leaving it, or progressing to the dominant (V chord), and then returning (or cadencing) back to the home key, tonic.
For all you producers out there having trouble with phrasing your baselines and or melodies, remember your roots: I-V-I, and then go from there.

[DJ Cubano]

I'm actually trying to find a good audio engineering school in boston or san fran.

[GLopez]

Originally Posted by DJ Cubano

I'm actually trying to find a good audio engineering school in boston or san fran.

why out there.. just to get away?

[Xodiac]

What's interesting is that most EDM does runs contrary to the I-V-I progression. The most common chord progressions I hear in trance and prog are i-VII and i-III, i-III-IV(or the dorian equiviliant iv) It should also be noted that chords themselves must usually be implied by the assumtion that the bass is the root, because in most cases all chord tones are not present. Also, V is very rare in dance music because most of it is written in minor scales. To have a V chord in a minor scale requires the raised 7th leading tone interval, which rarely happens. If the the chord moves the interval of a fifth, it's usually v, not V.

Now, while we don't see a fifth chord progression very often we do very often see the INTERVAL of 5th in melody and harmony. Instead of chords, dance musicians instinctually write blocked 5ths, and many trance and prog "arpeggio" sounds are based on the root and fifth notes of the scale played through different ocataves in rapid succession. The interval of a minor 7th is also curiously abundant, perhaps because of the easyness of the nautral minor scale, and is probably related to the abundance of the i-VII-i progression.

Whats even more fun is tech house where the different oscs of a synth will be tuned to consistant intervals, and then the musician will just play the roots. What results are all kinds of funky non-diatonic chords.

To give a pad a "rich" sound, try incorporating the interval(not scale degree) of a major second from any given chord tone. It helps!

For people wanting to learn about theory or get a refresher, here is a great web site....

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm

It's free and very extensive. It's no substitue for taking a class though.

[MattM]

Try everything. Use those drum samples or sounds that you'd never consider using and try and put together a track with them. Write in a key you usually don't write in, etc. Also, don't just write tracks when you're in a good mood, write some when you are angry or down or whatever.

[GLopez]

any of you guys play by ear?

I'm not up to par on the music definitions as much as I would like to be.. but I hear everything. when it's going to happen, where it's going to happen. I can listen to a song that I've never heard before and know what's going to happen next. it gives me butterflies...

[JV]

I wish I had that kind of background and knowledge... I'm like u Glopez, playing/producing by ear. I played piano, violin, and trumpet when i was in elementary school/middle school, but i distinctly playing by memory most the time. Having forgotton anything I learned, I took a piano class at Brookhaven one summer a while back and it just didn't stick I admire you guys with that knowledge and ability to use it.

- jv -

[Funkenstein]

I hold only a listener's ear and a memory for patterns, but this is where I would reference Sean Anderson (Grey).

That fool is all about the science of music and well-versed on its applications as well.

[Xodiac]

Honestly, you really HAVE to write dance music by ear, because it is so focused on how it SOUNDS. Sound design is the most important aspect, and most of theory deals with really complex chord progressions and melody and such, most of which don't really apply much to dance music anyway. But it does help you communicate with other musicians by giving you terminology that really helps you describes your music. Some people stress how theory is only supposed to describe how musicians choose to write music, while others stress the idea of "adhering to" theory to make your music sound right. In reality, I think it's a little bit of both.

If you want happier sounding music, then write in major instead of minor.

that's all I got right now. Sorry.


Nice topic though... makes me wish I still had alot of my music theory knowledge.

[PointBender]

Originally Posted by Rufus P. Funk

I hold only a listener's ear and a memory for patterns, but this is where I would reference Sean Anderson (Grey).

That fool is all about the science of music and well-versed on its applications as well.

Wow, Thanks Rufus!!!

I play by ear as well. Although i have found that over time playing by ear has its drawbacks. I am able to construst lots of chords, augmented 7th's, and simple scales. what i do find is that this closes me into a subset of chords and combinations. This can be cool cuase id venture to say it helps develop my sound, becuase i produce in a very limited # of keys. lately i have been reading up on new and alternative scales and keys in order to kinda break out of the mindset ive been using for the past 4 years. the more i absorb about the theory of these key constructions the more i can experiment with keys and scales outside my comfort zone. Experimentation is the key. Play full chords of just finger guessing and see what kind of dissonence the chord makes and adjust. The best thing about producing electronic music is there is no pressure to get the note right the first time, which free's you to expand and experiment without the fear of commiting to a sound.

[Trek]

i think a basic knowledge of music theory is one of the most overlooked things in electronic music production. it has helped me more than anything else. i would suggest that people at least learn how to read music.

a really easy and good scale to learn is the c blues scale. it's goes like this: C ,D#, F, F#,G, and A#

learn that sharping or flatting a note is raising or lowering it by 1/2 of a scale degree. for example: d#(d sharp) = Eb(e flat)

a good chord progression that is tried and tested with blues and rock music is the I, IV, V progression. I prefer a i, iv, v (minor)progression. for example, if you take the above mentioned scale, you would play a C minor chord(c + e flat + g), then F minor(f + a flat + c), then G minor(g + b flat + d).

learn the circle of 4th's it will really make your music "move"

i went to an engineering school. and out of all the classes i took, the one that has helped me out the most was their crash course in music theory. after learning many major and minor scales. you will unknowingly train your ear to hear what is in key. im no expert musician...but again, a basic knowledge of music theory will no doubt add a whole new dynamic to your production.

glopez, to answer your questions....

by learning basic music theory i am finally to the point where i can take a sample and most of the time figure out the notes played, but not always.

if youre looking at a school in boston...check out berklee. you can visit their website and they have free music lessons. http://www.berklee.edu

[Left]

cool to see some people trying to expand themselves.
i guess i'll go in order,
xodiac, i agree and disagree with you on several things...
i agree that a lot of EDM doesn't usually follow a I-V or i-V foundation, but it is often found in funk and jazz (I-ii-V) related EDM (such as house). Even trance and proggy although may not seem to follow this structure with their rising basslines, often is still based on it(although far removed via substitutions and inversions). I also know that when a trance producer is writing a progression he/she wants something that'll blow you away, and 151 will def not. Most interesting thing i agree with you and TREK about is the use of minor v's (natural minor). I think that's so cool that newer pop and EDM alike are kind of upsetting this traditional way of phrasing and twisting it to make it their own.
I also agree with you on your perspective of how to integrate theory into music:

Some people stress how theory is only supposed to describe how musicians choose to write music, while others stress the idea of "adhering to" theory to make your music sound right. In reality, I think it's a little bit of both.

however i disagree with you on saying sound design is the most important part. Granted, the words are thrown around a lot these days, but when i think of sound design, i think of it as beyond normal production, more processing and getting unique sounds (electroacoustic stuff, like convoluting a whale singing into a coke can). In the EDM world, i haven't found this too terribly important (like 10 diff producers using the same synth presets). some people do come up with more unique sounds, but not so much that i would consider it "sound design."

JustMike, thanks! that's exactly the kind of stuff i was looking for.

Glopez, playing by ear is where most of us started. In fact playing by ear, you can sometimes teach yourself...i've gone back after learning more theory to analyze stuff i'd done before, and it "worked!" Learning your keys and progressions does help the process, i've def noticed an increase in the ability to phrase and flow on the fly with my improv.

to Grey and Trek (in regards to diff scales)
blues scales are awesome!
also check out:
the church modes (any key, like C, but start and end on a different note within that key, such as D-D which is the dorian mode).
M/m pentatonic, whole tone and M/m octatonic (those might come in handy with some sick dNB (octatonic) or some floaty house/downtempo (wholetone or pentatonic)).
and the jazz alternate scales (i'm learning these more myself...).

Anyhow the reason i started this thread is because we've had a couple good threads before on production etc...and i think we should try to use our community as a resource...
100 heads are better than one!
hope to hear some more cool sheizer...

[Left]

ps xodiac, is that juno still up for sale?

[Xodiac]

http://klanglabs.siliconemusic.com/


Free incredible vst plugins here.