Program battle! What should I use?

[Tymeless]

Very well put Grey.

And I have to agree with you on protools. Cumbersome Bore with Proprietary gear. Hell I can't even use my Digi 001 because I lost my copy of 6.4. They don't support it anymore.

At work we're stuck at OS 10.3.4 because our mixfarm cards arnt compatible with OS10.4 and Protools 7 isnpt compatible with 10.3.7
Oh well, at least we're upgrading to HD2 this month.

Hence Why I stick with Logic on my Mac, Sonar on my PC, and Ableton on both.

[Rod Cramwell]

I call ableton a toy because I have yet to walk into a major studio
and see them tracking or mixing with ableton. Yes...it is powerful...it is fun...
and it can be used to produce. However, when it comes down to it, ableton
is a little hard to edit on, it takes two or three steps to do something that logic or DP could do in one....and there is some kind of hard limiter thing going on with the master buss.

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by Grey

ehhhhh,

Look sean, here's the reality. No program is "better" than another. As long as it processes in 24-32 bit float point which most of the aformentioned programs do (Except reason) then there is no one better program than another. The real difference lies in how you work as a musician. Here is the break down that I use for my trainees


Digital Performer- Loop based recording such as in dance music can be cumbersome becuase you have to learn to work in "Chunks" which is a concept that is unique to DP.

Great post, Grey.

I'd agree w/ pretty much everything except for saying a user "has" to learn chunks for DP. If you don't want to use them, don't.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by Grey

Digital Performer- Is a great program for people that come from a notation based background. Its interface caters to the musically minded and those that deal well in a very linear enviroment. Loop based recording such as in dance music can be cumbersome becuase you have to learn to work in "Chunks" which is a concept that is unique to DP. The plus side is that DP has amazing effects and once you learn the enviroment it is truely a great DAW software.

actually... working with the chunks in DP is perfect for loop based music.

you have the soundbites window which is exactly like Logic/CuBase and so on. you can do a lot in that window... but when you want to start "blocking" out the song, you go to the arrangement window and can lay it out in minutes vs any other program. just saying... loop based stuff on DP is actually more advanced than then others (to me). fuck all that switching to other tools and then making sure the soundbites match up to a line before you can effectivley copy and paste. all of that is removed when blocking out in the arrangement window.

plus... the auto pan is key. and the drum editor.

Originally Posted by Grey

Also, im tired of hearing the word VST to describe logic. Logic uses AU or Audio Unit plugins, not VST's. It is a much better programing protocol soo stop stuping au's down to vst terminology......

Hope this helps!

amen

[PointBender]

Originally Posted by nitetripp

actually... working with the chunks in DP is perfect for loop based music.

you have the soundbites window which is exactly like Logic/CuBase and so on. you can do a lot in that window... but when you want to start "blocking" out the song, you go to the arrangement window and can lay it out in minutes vs any other program. just saying... loop based stuff on DP is actually more advanced than then others (to me). fuck all that switching to other tools and then making sure the soundbites match up to a line before you can effectivley copy and paste. all of that is removed when blocking out in the arrangement window.

plus... the auto pan is key. and the drum editor.



amen

Don't get me wrong. I think DP is a great program. I wish i could hack their ring modulator, that thing is fing sick.

I must admit the last time that I really went in depth with DP was in 2004 when I was working as a TA for Kelly Durbin at UTD in his midi studios class, That was version 4 I think on a slow ass e machine. Im sure that the program is much more streamline now!

[SeanSparks]

Awesome help Sean, I may just have to save up money for that logic buy now.

-Sean

[GoldenHorse]

Just one thing to possibly consider is that if you are doing collabs then the other person is going to have to be running a Mac OS that runs Logic. On the other hand, Cubase is cross-platform which would allow you to share your project files with someone using either Mac or Windows OSes.

I find that VST is usually the most widely supported format so you have more choices of plugins to choose from. I would argue that most freeware plugins are VST only.

Cubase's SoundFrame technology allows you to organize all these sounds using MediaBay which gives NI's Kore a run for its money. I don't believe Logic provides anything like this.

So, I guess that's why I see Cubase 4 as a more open, flexible, extensible, and manageable environment in which to streamline production workflows. But as I always suggest with this choice, try before you buy.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by GoldenHorse

Just one thing to possibly consider is that if you are doing collabs then the other person is going to have to be running a Mac OS that runs Logic. On the other hand, Cubase is cross-platform which would allow you to share your project files with someone using either Mac or Windows OSes.

I find that VST is usually the most widely supported format so you have more choices of plugins to choose from. I would argue that most freeware plugins are VST only.

Cubase's SoundFrame technology allows you to organize all these sounds using MediaBay which gives NI's Kore a run for its money. I don't believe Logic provides anything like this.

So, I guess that's why I see Cubase 4 as a more open, flexible, extensible, and manageable environment in which to streamline production workflows. But as I always suggest with this choice, try before you buy.

that really doesn't make any sense.

just make stems and everything works with everything else. if you are talking about swapping the project files... then everything is going to be proprietary. it's not like Logic makes it's own special sound file and CuBase is some open source app. it can record and read whatever every other program can.

FYI: i use Sound Designer II files.

[GoldenHorse]

Let's say for instance I was working on an EP and I had a partner who used only a Mac and I use a PC. As collaborators we each want to be able to make fine-level adjustments to arrangements, mixer settings, channel settings , plug-ins, etc to each of the tracks on the EP.

So bouncing stuff down and providing only stems would not only introduce an unnecessary step, it would actually limit our creative possibilities in the collaboration.

By sharing the folder structure with .cpr project files we could transfer back and forth the actual raw tracks in their programmed form (assume that there is a whole lot of fancy MIDI action going on). The .cpr contains metadata that says how the physical project structure is organized which is information that is in addition to the MIDI. We both see the tracks at this level which gives us the utmost control and possibilities of where we take the productions in the most streamlined fashion - all the while he's on a Mac OS and I'm running Vista or XP. If he was using Logic, I'd have to buy a Mac along with Logic to collaborate at this very fine level.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by GoldenHorse

Let's say for instance I was working on an EP and I had a partner who used only a Mac and I use a PC. As collaborators we each want to be able to make fine-level adjustments to arrangements, mixer settings, channel settings , plug-ins, etc to each of the tracks on the EP.

So bouncing stuff down and providing only stems would not only introduce an unnecessary step, it would actually limit our creative possibilities in the collaboration.

By sharing the folder structure with .cpr project files we could transfer back and forth the actual raw tracks in their programmed form (assume that there is a whole lot of fancy MIDI action going on). The .cpr contains metadata that says how the physical project structure is organized which is information that is in addition to the MIDI. We both see the tracks at this level which gives us the utmost control and possibilities of where we take the productions in the most streamlined fashion - all the while he's on a Mac OS and I'm running Vista or XP. If he was using Logic, I'd have to buy a Mac along with Logic to collaborate at this very fine level.

i hear ya now.

in all of my years of producing we've never had to do something like that when multiple people have collaborated on a track. That's a shitload of files to be transfered between the 2 computers. audio clippings, analysis files, fades, and so on can easily get into the gigs and gigs as far as size goes.

that's why we just do stems. if something needs to be taken out or adjusted, then they do it and bounce that stem for use on another program. that way it doesn't matter what you are using.

regardless... your method is still proprietary and for practical purposes a waste of time. (IMO)

I think CuBase is a good program, but i hate it in the same breath. I've already gone into great detail about how much time is wasted using that program vs. logic or dp.

anyways... i see what you're saying.

[soundclash]

i love live 6

[Tymeless]

I see what your saying with Cubase, but not everyone is in Cubase. Hell I bounce between Live 6, Sonar, and Nuendo on my own PC computer as it is. And if that isn't enough, I bring my work projects home with me, And work is a g4 running Protools TDM and Peak. Sound Designer II files are my friend