Oh shit, the shooter that they killed was of middle eastern descent

[PETA]

Originally Posted by DJPePe

hahahaha please, you will find more instances of white trash hillbillies killing their wives and children than you would of "Muslim honor killings".

1) I'm not sure of that

2) The issue isn't your racist attitude towards rural Americans. The issue is people going on massive killing sprees based on a religious motive and the support (though low in percetage large in raw numbers) they receive globally for their brutality. "Hillbillies" don't get regarded as "martyrs" very often as far as I know.

We can play this game of moral equivalence if you'd like but I think you've got the short end of the stick when it comes to facts. When was the last hillbilly caught killing soldiers on a base based on his hillbilly ideology? We've got lots of examples of Muslim terrorists attacking bases, embassies, boats, buildings, grocery stores etc. Hillbillies... not so much.

Originally Posted by DJPePe

Besides, can the murder of Jasmine Fiore by Ryan Jenkins be classified as a "honor killing"? After all, he murdered her so brutally that she was ID'd via her breast implants, fled to Canada, only for him to hang himself when he was zeroed in. If Ryan Jenkins was a Muslim, we all know the same pundits would be calling it a honor killing.

No. We'd need to understand motive to make that declaration.

Originally Posted by DJPePe

I am not endorsing the murder of the daughters from last year. Plus, if you don't think this occurs in other communities, you are solely mistaken. I guarantee you that such mentality exists among Middle Eastern Christians as well

OK. Simply accepting your claim as true; they suck for doing it too. Your comment doesn't excuse the horrific it merely enlargens the pool of horrific bastards. Again, you're playing a game of moral equivalence to justify the unjustifiable. Just call the unmitigated asshole an unmitigated asshole won't you? Just agree with me that murdering people based on a religious distinction is an afront to that religion. Killing innocents in the name of Islam or Christianity or FSMonsterism should be immediately and universally condemned.

Originally Posted by Eric Scholwinski

it's pretty goddamn ruthless when you can turn around and shoot both your children with a gun, while they scream no DADDY

then get out of the car and leave.

That blew my mind.

But Eric, it's not a big deal. Apparently Eastern Orthodox Christians somewhere, someplace at somepoint do it too.

[DJPePe]

Originally Posted by Eric Scholwinski

it's pretty goddamn ruthless when you can turn around and shoot both your children with a gun, while they scream no DADDY

then get out of the car and leave.

That blew my mind.

Or if you're a mother, driving your car with two toddlers into a lake, then trying to claim that your car was carjacked by a black man in order to win sympathy.

You remember that incident?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by DJPePe

Or if you're a mother, driving your car with two toddlers into a lake, then trying to claim that your car was carjacked by a black man in order to win sympathy.

You remember that incident?

Yup. And you will recall that EVERYONE condemned her IMMEDIATELY, most calling for her swift conviction and execution. Most screaming injustice at her mistrial and NG by Reason of Mental Defect finding etc etc.

They didn't say, "well, Muslim mothers do it too."

See the difference here yet?

[Eric Scholwinski]

toddlers don't know any better or know what the hell is going on. 15 and 16 year old girls do know whats about to happen.

and yeah i remember, I was just saying i don't care who the fuck you are, shooting your kids who are begging for their life is pretty fucking ruthless.

[DJPePe]

Originally Posted by PETA

Yup. And you will recall that EVERYONE condemned her IMMEDIATELY, most calling for her swift conviction and execution. Most screaming injustice at her mistrial and NG by Reason of Mental Defect finding etc etc.

They didn't say, "well, Muslim mothers do it too."

See the difference here yet?

Sorry, but you're fallaciously telling me that Muslims condone these types of activities. I have to disagree.

Muslim organizations have vociferously condemned honor killings any time they occur and have called for Muslims to take a further stand against domestic violence in the community. Such sentiments were displayed when a Pakistani girl in Canada was strangled by her deranged father because she did not wear the hijab and she spent the night at a friend's house to avoid the father's lunacy two years ago. I have always expressed the need to lay justice upon those who commit these disgusting crimes (by advocating that they be sentenced to death, even in countries where the death penalty is outlawed). I have expressed them on here in the past and I will not hesitate to do so again.

Originally Posted by Eric Scholwinski

toddlers don't know any better or know what the hell is going on. 15 and 16 year old girls do know whats about to happen.

and yeah i remember, I was just saying i don't care who the fuck you are, shooting your kids who are begging for their life is pretty fucking ruthless.

Indeed it is. I hope that son of a bitch is caught and tried for his crimes. There's no excuse for what he did, none.

[tragicallyunhip]

I am so confused by the turn this conversation has taken. I do believe it's relevant to motive that this man was allegedly a recent convert to Islam. It is being said that this is why he was so angry about being shipped out to Iraq. Whether or not his freak out had more to do with his conversion to Islam or more to do with just not wanting to play in the sandbox is yet to be determined. Could be his recent conversion was just another excuse to try to whine his way out of it. Who knows.

Christians kill people. Muslims kill people. Crazy people kill people. There's enough violence to go around without getting into a pissing match about it.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by DJPePe

Sorry, but you're fallaciously telling me that Muslims condone these types of activities. I have to disagree.

That's not at all what I said.

I said Americans UNIVERSALLY condemned the acts. It is not true that Muslims universally condemn acts of terrorism. I specifically noted that those who praise such acts are small in terms of percentage but also noted that the small percentage still yields a large number of actual supporters. And therein lieth the problem... well, one of them. Your argument that others are nasty too is simply a bizarre problem of logic. "He robbed the liquor store too" is not defense to the accomplice's robbery Pepe.

Originally Posted by tragicallyunhip

I am so confused by the turn this conversation has taken. I do believe it's relevant to motive that this man was allegedly a recent convert to Islam. It is being said that this is why he was so angry about being shipped out to Iraq. Whether or not his freak out had more to do with his conversion to Islam or more to do with just not wanting to play in the sandbox is yet to be determined.

fair point

[DJPePe]

Originally Posted by PETA

1) I'm not sure of that

2) The issue isn't your racist attitude towards rural Americans.

What racist attitude? Plenty of upper-class whites refer to the lower-class whites as "white trash hillbillies". Are they racist now?

The issue is people going on massive killing sprees based on a religious motive and the support (though low in percetage large in raw numbers) they receive globally for their brutality. "Hillbillies" don't get regarded as "martyrs" very often as far as I know.

You mean like Baruch Goldstein who is still revered as a 'martyr' by extremist Jews such as the Jewish Task Force/JDL or Kahane Chai?

We can play this game of moral equivalence if you'd like but I think you've got the short end of the stick when it comes to facts. When was the last hillbilly caught killing soldiers on a base based on his hillbilly ideology? We've got lots of examples of Muslim terrorists attacking bases, embassies, boats, buildings, grocery stores etc. Hillbillies... not so much.

You and I do not know whether ideology played a role in this incident. You are basing that view due to the suspect being Muslim. And no, you need to understand that Muslims are human, like all other human beings. They're not angels. They're subject to the same motives and driven by the same desires as other non-Muslims are. How difficult is it for people to comprehend that?

What lots of examples? When's the last time a Muslim went into a grocery store and shot innocent people? Quit talking out of your ass here.

No. We'd need to understand motive to make that declaration.

That doesn't apply if the suspect is a Muslim, and you demonstrated it by prematurely stating that the ideology of the suspect is to blame.

OK. Simply accepting your claim as true; they suck for doing it too. Your comment doesn't excuse the horrific it merely enlargens the pool of horrific bastards. Again, you're playing a game of moral equivalence to justify the unjustifiable. Just call the unmitigated asshole an unmitigated asshole won't you? Just agree with me that murdering people based on a religious distinction is an afront to that religion. Killing innocents in the name of Islam or Christianity or FSMonsterism should be immediately and universally condemned.

I have no problem agreeing with you that no matter who commits the crime, it is reprehensible and should be condemned.

What I have trouble with is the extra scrutinization Muslims have to go through due to the acts of a lone idiot. I'm not going to blame all Jews for the actions of Baruch Goldstein or the fuckwits at JTF, so why should others do the same for Muslims?

But Eric, it's not a big deal. Apparently Eastern Orthodox Christians somewhere, someplace at somepoint do it too.

But it's okay because they are punishing them for falling in love with Muslims or converting to Islam. It does happen...and it is endorsed as long as it fits their hatred of Muslims and Islam. After all, these same goons still cry over the past, invoking the fall of Constantinople to justify their hatred.

[DJPePe]

I said Americans UNIVERSALLY condemned the acts. It is not true that Muslims universally condemn acts of terrorism. I specifically noted that those who praise such acts are small in terms of percentage but also noted that the small percentage still yields a large number of actual supporters. And therein lieth the problem... well, one of them. Your argument that others are nasty too is simply a bizarre problem of logic. "He robbed the liquor store too" is not defense to the accomplice's robbery Pepe.

At the risk of derailing the topic, I don't know if I can agree to that statement. I don't recall Americans universally condemning what happened at My Lai, and even threatened men such as Hugh Thompson, who tried to intervene in the process.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by DJPePe

What racist attitude? Plenty of upper-class whites refer to the lower-class whites as "white trash hillbillies". Are they racist now?

no more than those who identify muslim terrorists as muslim terrorists

Originally Posted by DJPePe

You mean like Baruch Goldstein who is still revered as a 'martyr' by extremist Jews such as the Jewish Task Force/JDL or Kahane Chai?

How many muslim suicide bombers are nameless such that we can use the distinction to demonstrate rarity vs sad frequency?

Originally Posted by DJPePe

You and I do not know whether ideology played a role in this incident. You are basing that view due to the suspect being Muslim. And no, you need to understand that Muslims are human, like all other human beings. They're not angels. They're subject to the same motives and driven by the same desires as other non-Muslims are. How difficult is it for people to comprehend that?

See above. Fair point. And yes, people are people and all prone to being assholes.

Originally Posted by DJPePe

What lots of examples? When's the last time a Muslim went into a grocery store and shot innocent people? Quit talking out of your ass here.

Again, true enough. Its been a while since such attacks were happening in Israel.

Originally Posted by DJPePe

That doesn't apply if the suspect is a Muslim, and you demonstrated it by prematurely stating that the ideology of the suspect is to blame.

Again, see above. Fair point.

Originally Posted by DJPePe

I have no problem agreeing with you that no matter who commits the crime, it is reprehensible and should be condemned.

What I have trouble with is the extra scrutinization Muslims have to go through due to the acts of a lone idiot.

But that's the problem. It isn't a lone idiot. A small percentage representing a significant number....

Originally Posted by DJPePe

I'm not going to blame all Jews for the actions of Baruch Goldstein or the fuckwits at JTF, so why should others do the same for Muslims?

I don't condemn Islam. I condemn assholes defending evil based on their faith and more importantly the "Imams" providing them with the justification and urge.

Originally Posted by DJPePe

But it's okay because they are punishing them for falling in love with Muslims or converting to Islam. It does happen...and it is endorsed as long as it fits their hatred of Muslims and Islam. After all, these same goons still cry over the past, invoking the fall of Constantinople to justify their hatred.

Um, no, not ok. Murder is murder and must be condemed or face an immoral and violent society.

Originally Posted by DJPePe

At the risk of derailing the topic, I don't know if I can agree to that statement. I don't recall Americans universally condemning what happened at My Lai, and even threatened men such as Hugh Thompson, who tried to intervene in the process.

You don't get to change horses midstream Pepe.

Mom killing kids is a very different issue than wartime atrocities. I'm not defending My Lai - horrible - condemnable. I'm saying Mom was universally condemned.... and she was.

[tragicallyunhip]

Originally Posted by DJPePe

You and I do not know whether ideology played a role in this incident. You are basing that view due to the suspect being Muslim. And no, you need to understand that Muslims are human, like all other human beings. They're not angels. They're subject to the same motives and driven by the same desires as other non-Muslims are. How difficult is it for people to comprehend that?

This is an interesting article. It's a little different than what I was told by my army buddy, that the guy was a recent convert. Reading between the lines, it seems like this guy was just scared shitless of seeing actual combat and had been trying for a number of years to avoid it by playing the discrimination card.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33704314...ew_york_times/

[name change request]

in the span of a couple of hours you should've seen how much the story changed on the news. Fox News was playing while we were at the poker table and the story morphed so much... which is completely normal... you get more facts, etc etc

but it's the fact that there are 24 hours news stations that feel they have to cover this shit constantly that is the problem. just figure out wtf is going on and THEN report... don't be spreading rumors and shit and then say that you have new details and that what you thought before was wrong.

and i was out on lower greenville later and heard people talking shit about muslims AGAIN... it's like WTF

people are stupid

[DJPePe]

Originally Posted by PETA

no more than those who identify muslim terrorists as muslim terrorists

I never cried about them being labelled "Muslim terrorists", because they are Muslim and they are terrorist. I don't know what's so difficult about that IMO. I'm not the type that cries about that. I even have no problem using it to describe certain terrorists in a post on here.

How many muslim suicide bombers are nameless such that we can use the distinction to demonstrate rarity vs sad frequency?

I agree, but that doesn't mean we should downplay the threats from other extremists.

See above. Fair point. And yes, people are people and all prone to being assholes.

True, it's human nature after all.

Again, true enough. Its been a while since such attacks were happening in Israel.

Even in Israel, I can't think of a single incident where a man goes into a grocery store and shoots up innocent people. I do remember a story last year in Jerusalem where militants went into a yeshiva and shot up 15 students. That was a disgusting crime and there was nothing honorable about it.

But that's the problem. It isn't a lone idiot. A small percentage representing a significant number....

The difference is the motives involved. When that idiot shot up a Jewish center in Seattle 3 years ago, some people forget that he was actually a Muslim convert to Christianity and had problems with his life. Of course that doesn't justify the attack, but it's not just the case of Muslim extremism. But I can understand why they would, given the timing of the attack, which was during the Israeli bombing campaign in Lebanon.

I don't condemn Islam. I condemn assholes defending evil based on their faith and more importantly the "Imams" providing them with the justification and urge.

I know, I never stated you did. I can't even recall where you did. I don't have a problem condemning the evil as well as those who brainwash young folks to do so. But given your posts in the past about Muslims trying to take over Europe even though such scenarios will not occur, it's hard to think otherwise.

Um, no, not ok. Murder is murder and must be condemed or face an immoral and violent society.

Agreed, but idiots on both sides of the spectrum can't grasp that.

[DJPePe]

and i was out on lower greenville later and heard people talking shit about muslims AGAIN... it's like WTF

Eh, people said the same shit about Asians when the Virginia Tech massacre happened.

It sucks of course, but it's not limited to Muslims. I don't like to pull up the whole "they hate me cuz I'm Muslim" card because other minorities suffered worse in the beginnings.

[DJPePe]

Originally Posted by tragicallyunhip

This is an interesting article. It's a little different than what I was told by my army buddy, that the guy was a recent convert. Reading between the lines, it seems like this guy was just scared shitless of seeing actual combat and had been trying for a number of years to avoid it by playing the discrimination card.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33704314...ew_york_times/

What was he so scared about? Plenty of Muslims have seen combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. I mean shit, Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan was one who fought and died in Iraq 2 years ago. I'll admit that if Colin Powell had not mention his name last year when he announced his endorsement of Barack Obama, I would not have even known about it.